water filter system or water softener?

[grps556]

My wife and I are just about ready to purchase some filtration systems from you, but wanted to get your advice first. Our goals are to have good tasting water and to preserve the life of our appliances (water heater, dish washer, etc.). To accomplish this task, we've been considering a whole house filtration system to remove sediment and an under the sink system to improve the drinking water's taste. We did a test on our water last night which checked the levels of nitrates, nitrites, copper, iron, and chlorine. In addition, it showed us the pH level, the alkalinity, and degree of hardness. In our case, most levels seemed acceptable, with the pH being a bit high (a 9) and the hardness being off the chart (more than 25 grains/425 ppm). Based on the research I've done so far, it looks like the Pentex US 1500 system would be good for under the sink. However, I'm a bit confused about a whole house system. My questions are:


1. Is a water softener necessary in order to extend the life of our appliances and improve the taste of our drinking water?


2. If a water softener is necessary, would you recommend a separate system, or would something like the BBFS-22 with a WS-20BB water softener filter and a sediment filter be acceptable?


3. Given our water quality and your recommendations in questions 1 and 2, would the Pentex US 1500 system be the one you'd suggest for under the sink? If not, which system do you recommend (we'd prefer to stay away from reverse osmosis systems due to the large amount of waste water involved)?


4. Lastly (thanks for your patience), which filters would you recommend for whichever under the sink system you'd go with in question 3?

[waterfilters]

With water as hard as yours, a softening filter will not be sufficient. A water softener is the best, most efficient and least expensive (over the long run) way to go. We have water softener systems, but they are not on our web site yet. If you are interested in going that direction, we could provide you with more info upon request. However, soft water does not usually taste very good, so you will still want an under sink system for drinking and cooking water. The US-1500 is a good choice, but will not come close to the quality of filtration provided by an RO system. If you are concerned with waste water, this link GE Merlin Tankless Reverse Osmosis System 1255052 GE Merlin RO System will take you to the latest in RO technology that wastes significantly less water. RO systems typically have a good water to waste water ratio of 1 to 5, but the Merlin has a ratio of 1 to 2. If you decide against RO the US 1500 will do a nice job of filtration. Here are a couple of filters that will work nicely for that system. This first link would be an excellent sediment filter ECP1-10 water filters and Pentek ECP110 sediment filter cartridges 255481 for home water filtration followed by CBR2-10 water filters for lead reduction and Ametek CBR210 carbon water filter 155268 a really good quality carbon block filter to get even more contaminants and improve taste and odor.


Thank you,
WaterFilters.NET

[grps556]

Thanks for your response. I'm a bit concerned about the "slippery" feel that softened water is supposed to have, and also the high sodium content I've read about. If you've got any water softener options which wouldn't have these issues, I'd definitely like to hear about them. The Merlin reverse osmosis system sounds great with respect to the amount of waste water involved. However, it might be overkill if we were to use it for all water coming out of the faucet. In other words, it sounds great for drinking water but might be wasteful for washing dishes considering we're also looking at a whole house filter (and possibly a water softener as well). Is there a way to connect the Merlin system to its own faucet similar to the typical under the sink system, or does it go straight to the main faucet? Thanks for your help and please pardon my ignorance.

[waterfilters]

The Merlin is capable of a high quantity of water, but can also be used for lesser quantity applications like a separate drinking and cooking water faucet. Basically the RO membranes will just live longer if you use it less.

Softened water does have a unique feel to it, but this won't be noticed in your drinking water as the additional filtration process will make it very normal. Here is a link to some information concerning the issue of Sodium in your softened water. Water Softening and Sodium, comparison of sodium levels in food and softened water RO will remove over 95% of the added sodium, so with an RO system your drinking and cooking water will be isolated from the sodium issue. Other filtration methods are incapable of removing the sodium, and frankly with water as hard as yours, I don't know how you can avoid using a softener. I have softener filters, but you would go through them so fast it simply would not be economical.

For your situation I would recommend a sediment filter to 5 microns pre-softener followed by a softener, then a carbon filter to help normalize the water from the softening process, and at the kitchen tap an RO system through an isolated faucet. This will fix all your water problems for the whole house.

Please feel free to ask more questions, that's why we're here.

Thank you,
WaterFilters.NET

[grps556]

It looks like my concerns regarding the sodium levels were unfounded; thanks for the link. Ok, I think we're ready to spec out the equipment we'll need then. You mentioned a sediment filter followed by a softener, then a carbon filter for the whole house system. Which products do we need to get to do this? Also, do you sell the isolated faucet you mentioned to connect to the Merlin RO system?

[waterfilters]

Here are the products you are looking for. Here's the Big Blue housing. 20 Inch Big Blue Whole House Water Filter Housing #20 from Ametek, USFilter, and Pentek This housing is commonly used for whole house applications, and best of all they use a standard size filter(translated filter availability for the next millenium). You will need 2 of these; one for the sediment and one for the carbon. Here is an excellent choice for a sediment filter DGD-7525-20 Water Filter and Pentek DGD752520 sediment filters for 20 inch Big Blue Whole House Housings and here is a good quality carbon block filter EP-20BB filters and Pentek EP20-BB carbon water filter cartridge 155583 for 20 inch big blue housings and here is a link to our faucets page Faucets for Reverse Osmosis Systems and Drinking Water Spigots for Under Sink Water Filters where you will find faucets designed to go with RO systems. We also have water softeners, but they are not on the web site yet.

Thank you,
WaterFilters.NET

[awc222]

Originally Posted by grps556

Thanks for your response. I'm a bit concerned about the "slippery" feel that softened water is supposed to have, and also the high sodium content I've read about. If you've got any water softener options which wouldn't have these issues, I'd definitely like to hear about them.

Slippery, slimey, slick are all terms we heard when those first experiencing soft water while bathing. This means it is working. First of all, bathing in hard water leaves deposits on your skin containing hardness minerals and soap causing soap curd. Your skin feels "dry" even while you are showering. Oddly enough, people report that after showering they squirt moisturizers on their skin making it feel slippery, slick and slimey. These only compound the deposits already on your skin.

For more explanantion on soaps and hard/soft water:
Re: With soft water, why can't we rinse off all the soap

Originally Posted by grps556

The Merlin reverse osmosis system sounds great with respect to the amount of waste water involved. However, it might be overkill if we were to use it for all water coming out of the faucet. In other words, it sounds great for drinking water but might be wasteful for washing dishes considering we're also looking at a whole house filter (and possibly a water softener as well). Is there a way to connect the Merlin system to its own faucet similar to the typical under the sink system, or does it go straight to the main faucet? Thanks for your help and please pardon my ignorance.

The Merlin is not meant ot provide water to the whole house albeit I have sese it advertised as such. Wholehouse ROs have many disadvantages and is not normally recommended. It usually comes with it own faucet.

The reason Merlin can produce so much water (1/2 gpm) is that it has two, rather large membranes. But it still must have its concentrate (water containing removed elements) wash down the drain.

It's good that you are asking questions and try to learn as much as you can before buying equipment. Also, get thorough water tests.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

[dogman]

I offered Pur water filters my Patent Pending Idea to update their old water filters to use Auto Flush Technology, However, A.G. Lafley and his staff saw no value in Auto Flushing the kitchen Tap water filters as they see no value in help protecting their customers health. It is fine to let people forget to manually flush their systems as the black particulates that carry impurities and bacteria and other contaminates as well as chlorine and such is obviously just fine if their customers drink it, well then if it is safe to drink it, then why do we need the water filter in the first place?

When people use kitchen tap water filters they must activate the filters for 10 to fifteen seconds on first use....Must Manually flush prior to every use, For nearly thirty years they have not updated this horrible pain in the Ass! If I forget to Manually Flush then I get black particulates into my drinking water glass, which they claim is harmless and that is a Lie!

Proctor and Gamble and Mr.AG.Lafely hate Auto Flush Technology but Proctor and Gamble obviously do not care enough about their customers Health and Well being to add Auto Flushing to your water filters!

Shame on you Mr. Lafley!!! lafley.ag@pg.com

A simple process to make our lives easier and safer and they won't do it! You think it is o.k to drink Black Particulates and bacteria and residue from a used and or dirty filter. When all you have to do is ensure that a control board can be programmed to control valves and the water flow.

Rest assured the process of Auto Flushing is going to be circulating on forums and news sites until some water filter company cares enough about our welfare to start adding Auto Flushing to their systems. Hell isn't it time! faucets are automated, doors and even soap dispensers and paper towel dispensers!

Shame, Shame, Shame on you and Proctor and Gamble!
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